Screen shape update II: Panorama: Rocky Mountain PBS

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Screen shape update II

posted Tuesday, Aug. 18, 2009 4:07pm

See more on: Tech Talk

Thanks to all the viewers who've responded here on Tech Talk around aspect ratio issues. As content creators ourselves, let me assure you that we, too, are unhappy with how some of our national and local programming has been presented.

We are in the process daily of re-formatting the vast amounts of content in-house and the new programming that is fed to us daily via satellite. From an organizational standpoint, it's both a huge and an interesting endeavor. There is a monumental amount of content to reformat coming from programming, production, underwriting and so on.

The "assembly line" process of reformatting is also time-consuming. Imagine the number of hours of legacy programming that has to pass through 2 or 3 edit rooms to meet the air schedule – all the while keeping up with our regular work loads.

It has been interesting working with staff to come together and solve a problem that, in large part, is unique to PBS. I'm personally grateful to have people on board who can assist with this problem and who have the passion and dedication to work harder and longer to bring a you a better viewing experience.

Some good news is that we've identified equipment that will help us to receive and preserve PBS' national programming in proper standard definition (SD) aspect ratio, versus high definition (HD). This will relieve us of having to pass future programs through edit rooms to reformat.

We have also applied for a grant to purchase the proper equipment that will allow us to receive, via satellite, HD programming and broadcast an HD signal.

Again, we value our viewers, and appreciate your holding us to the standards you have come to expect of us and that we expect of ourselves. I assure you that we are working hard with the resources we have, and you will see a positive difference with each coming day.

-Tom Craig, Production Manager

What's your point of view?

George Zaboji
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 › 5:01pm
What happened to the beautiful HD programming of the past?
Also I don't like your new "stretchovision".I think the picture would me more realistic in the 4:3 format as it is seen on directv.

Tom Craig
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 › 5:22pm
George:

I am interested in what channel you are watching us on via DirecTV. Are you watching channel 6, or a higher numbered channel assignment on an HD or standard definition digital tier?

Rocky Mountain PBS has not been broadcasting in HD (although our Production team has been shooting and editing documentaries in HD for about 10 years). We have only been broadcasting in 16x9 widescreen for about a month.

The "strechovision", beginning tonight, should be seen much less frequently.

As to the question of 4x3 versus 16x9, we have viewers on both sides of that fence. If we are doing our job correctly, the widescreen format should work for nearly everyone.

Could you clarify the channel assignment you are watching, and the question of HD?

Respectfully,

Tom Craig

RobT
Tuesday, August 18, 2009 › 10:12pm
I saw Nova and Nova Science Now tonight, and they looked as good as I expect in SD. Keep this up! :-)

It's sad to hear about the grant for HD capability - I am quite surprised to hear that this is only happening now. I had been lead to believe that that would happen by August 10, and can't say I understand what's up with that.

Bill
Wednesday, August 19, 2009 › 6:56am
Or you could just dump V-Me and Create and pass on a beautiful PBS HD signal like you used to.

Instead at best we'll get nice soft HD like KUSA transmits due to the bandwidth stolen by your multiple subchannels.

So yes, you DID transmit HD - all the time, in fact. Then you went to half a day, then none at all when you added the subchannels.

Dave Ross
Wednesday, August 19, 2009 › 8:20am
Mr. Craig,
While I have watched Dish SD for several years, I recently added an OTA antennato get local HD programming. I was particularly looking forward to seeing PBS content in HD.

I need to add my voice to those comments regarding the lack of HD and the recent aspect ratio distortion of some programs.

While I'm sure that this is more complicated than many of us understand, something that would go a long way to making the situation more palatable would be a complete explanation of the current situation.

What exactly leads to the aspect problems? What will be involved in fixing it? Why is it more of a problem for PBS affilliates than for other stations with mixed HD/SD content? Why if you could broadcast in HD in the past, can you not now? How/when will this be fixed?

Thanks

Tom Craig
Wednesday, August 19, 2009 › 10:33am
George:

I misspoke yesterday regarding our broadcasting HD. We WERE passing through a PBS national feed that we did not touch. In other words, we did not insert local breaks between programs, or insert RMPBS logos and such. It was a beautiful signal as it was not compressed.

I have been so focused on the RMPBS local feeds, and assumed you were referring to the same. My apologies for the misinformation.

Having been part of the Production team that has been working in HD for almost 10 years, I can tell you that I'm really looking forward to the time we can showcase our programs in HD. We have some hardware components already in house towards that end. As mentioned before, we've applied for a grant so that we may complete the infrastructure. We should know by next week...

Tom Craig

GE
Wednesday, August 19, 2009 › 12:43pm

Hi Tom. Your explanantion earlier today (8/19) was unclear to me.

Was the PBS national feed passed through in HD in 1080i (or 720p)?

Also, all ATSC digital over-the-air transmission is compressed in a form of MPEG-2 when transmitted whether SD or HD. When you said " It was a beautiful signal as it was not compressed." did you mean that it was not a stretched SD 4:3 feed?

John
Wednesday, August 19, 2009 › 6:09pm
Tom,

Prime time last night did appear to have correct aspect ratios on all programs. But after midnight, things go downhill. Tavis Smiley was correct, but World Report was a 4:3 stretched to 16:9, Soundstage was 16:9 squashed to almost CinemaScope proportions.

I have always assumed that the feed from national PBS would have some sort of flag in the datastream to identify the program's aspect ratio to the local switching equipment.
I incorrectly assumed that you already had the equipment to read that flag but at least you have identified the needed hardware. But can't the current equipment be operated in manual mode? Don't you have anyone in the control room overnight that could see the problem and make corrections?

John

John
Wednesday, August 19, 2009 › 6:10pm
Tom,

I would submit that many of us concerned with the situation are very technical and would understand a nuts and bolts description of the multiple causes of the AR problems. As Dave Ross points out, it would make things more palatable.

1080i HD sounds like it might be in the cards sooner that later if the grant money is obtained. Of course, then we'll have to start complaining about bit robbing by the other sub-channels and what it is doing to the HD picture quality. :)

John

John Weil
Thursday, August 20, 2009 › 11:55am
Tom- KRMA seems to be taking a third-world, non-emerging approach to HD. Why is it ONLY NOW that equipment has been identified and a grant applied for?

John

Bill
Thursday, August 20, 2009 › 3:05pm
He meant REcompressed.

KRMA-DT used to pass the PBS HD feed in full ATSC bandwidth 1080i 24 hours a day.

Then they started alternating the PBS HD feed with Create so that they were only passing HD about five or six hours per day.

Since they don't have the ability to REcompress HD in house, when they added V-Me and Create, they were from that point unable to broadcast an HD signal.

So even when they get their new equipment, the picture quality will NEVER be what it was five years ago as they need to reduce the bandwidth of the HD channel to simultaneously transmit V-Me and Create.

Sad, but true; it's the same for KMGH-DT and KUSA-DT, as they also transmit subchannels, requiring them to recompress and soften their network feeds, so the best HD picture quality is in the past. :-(

Tom Craig
Thursday, August 20, 2009 › 5:30pm
John:

I'll try to give you some detail in the limited space the postings here allow. Please bear with me.

PBS does not feed all programming in the same aspect ratio, or associated variant -- pillar box, letter box, etc. PBS is currently "experimenting" with AFD - Automatic Format Description data. None of our shows prior to this moment have the AFD data in the PSIP table. The new shows coming down off satellite do not have correct AFD data. We have several points of processing that COULD talk with the AFD data, but we can't yet even verify that our internal system settings are correct until we have the proper data in the PSIP table.

Aahh, HD: robbing Peter to pay Paul in the bandwidth. Thanks for the smile on that one. I can use it at this point.

Tom Craig

Tom Craig
Thursday, August 20, 2009 › 5:46pm
To all:

I'm trying to keep up with all of you. If I don't reply right away, please trust that I've seen your postings, but I'm working with teams to solve some of our problems along with the production work that must be taken care of every day.

Bill, I'll address your comments here. It is safe to say that with the advent of subchannels, the HD signal (when present) will suffer a bit. Remember, my production team has been working in HD for nearly 10 years, with as clean of a signal (all the way from camera acquisition through post-production) as possible. We feel your pain. But industry experts have told broadcasters all along that economics would mandate multiple streams to attract a wider viewing audience.

But I'm on your side: I love a more pristine HD picture.

Tom Craig

John
Thursday, August 20, 2009 › 6:15pm
Tom,

Thanks for the info on AFD data. My assumption that national PBS was sending this correctly was wrong. I can better understand now what you're up against since it looks like everything you send out has to be manually formatted to the correct AR. Bummer.

When you get HD working I hope you can give it at least 14-15Mbps. Peter will look good in HD. Nobody will notice that Paul looks a little soft. :) :)

John

John
Saturday, August 22, 2009 › 4:15pm
If HD not available OTA, due to bandwidth, why not KRMA HD via Directv?

GE
Sunday, August 23, 2009 › 9:07am

John, the problem is not enough internal server capacity for the multiple program streams for the sub-channels.

Thus, RMPBS can't provide HD to any delivery system until they increase server capacity or delete some sub-channels. However, as Tom Craig noted: " But industry experts have told broadcasters all along that economics would mandate multiple streams to attract a wider viewing audience."

HD will return in time as capital funds are available for server purchases. Please note also some posters in the past on various blogs on this site have said that these days servers are inexpensive . However, the specialized servers used in broadcasting are far more expensive than a generic computer server.

In a few months most of the growing pains of DTV/HDTV will be gone.

Tom Craig
Tuesday, August 25, 2009 › 5:43pm
John:

I am sending an email to Engineering, asking if they would please give me an indication of how much of our bandwidth will be given over to prime-time HD programs once we have that capability.

Tom Craig

Juan deCalavera
Friday, August 28, 2009 › 9:52am
I noticed we were able to watch an entire evening of RMPBS 6.1 from 7 to 10 p.m. last night (8/27) without an aspect ratio change -- great job! You're obviously working through this and I think your progress should be noted. Sherlock never looked better!

Tom Craig
Tuesday, September 1, 2009 › 11:50am
Juan:

Thanks for watching, and commendation. We are working hard on this. We are presently identifying ways to have fewer manual "touches" in re-formatting the programs that require it, and utilizing more automation. We want to be sure that automation in this area does not set us back.

For our viewers with children, we are now working on formatting the "break" elements between the day part kid's block. Once that is done we will focus more attention on the kid's programs.

Juan, thanks again for taking the time to write. We appreciate you.

Tom Craig

George Zaboji
Tuesday, September 1, 2009 › 3:07pm
I watched Great Performances on Directv Channel 6.It appeared to be a 16:9 source cropped to 4:3.
This was not very good.Text was truncated on the left side and the subtitles were obliterated with the RMPBS watermark on the right side.
I think the technical quality RMPBS has deteriorated in the Denver area since adding the subchannels! In past when you were transmitting from the Republic Building you HD broadcast were outstanding.Now,even the Standard Definition signal is compromised on Ch 6.1.

concerned
Tuesday, September 1, 2009 › 5:07pm
When is PBS going to pass the AFD codes?

Concerned
Tuesday, September 1, 2009 › 5:12pm
by the way AFD codes are not part of the PSIP information, please get your facts straight before posting it is done in the encoding.

Tom Craig
Tuesday, September 1, 2009 › 5:58pm
"Concerned" is correct. The AFD data can be included in the MPEG video stream as a DVB extension, but not stored in the PSIP. AFD can also be included as part of the SDI stream per SMPTE standard 2016-1-2007.

George: If you are watching DirecTV on what we call the "analog tier", you will see their center-cutting of 16x9 programs. Additionally, DirecTV, Dish Networks, and Comcast and Bresnan cable all seem to be further compressing our signal. According to our Engineering Manager, we did not feed DirecTV a digital signal from our low-power transmitter on the Republic building until we shut off our analog transmitter on about June 12th. As noted in other posts, in years past we fed an HD PBS pass-through signal to our digital transmitter -- we did not further compress it.

Tom Craig

GE
Tuesday, September 1, 2009 › 10:37pm
Tom, KRMA did not turn off its analog signal on June 12. It discontinued regular programming as required by the FCC and switched to "nightlight service" as authorized by the FCC for another month. The analog signal was actually turned off on July 12.

John W
Friday, September 11, 2009 › 9:29pm
A tongue-in-cheek resolution to the "stretch-o-vision" problem is to view the screen at a 41 degree angle. Programs with a 4:3 aspect ratio broadcast with a 16:9 aspect ratio appear nearly normal if viewed at sufficient distance to avoid perspective distortion. Perhaps someone will invent a remote control turntable if the problem persists!

Tom Craig
Monday, September 14, 2009 › 2:54pm
GE:

You are correct in your statement. However, for all practical purposes it was "shut off" in that we no longer ran our regular programming, instead carrying looped instructional information regarding accessing the digital service. My department handled the production of that video.

Tom Craig
Monday, September 14, 2009 › 3:12pm
I like your funny solution of viewing the screen at a 41-degree angle. I suspect this won't work for the viewers with plasma screens -- too steep of an angle.

Thanks for the humor!

Tom Craig
Monday, September 14, 2009 › 3:59pm
Picking up on John W.'s comment on viewing angle, it would be interesting to hear what type of display/s you are using -- plasma, DLP, LCD, etc. How big of a set are you using, and how do you get your signal/s? Cable, satellite, over-the-air?

My good friend, Bill H. in Denver, has several setups which he views side by side. He watches over the air, and via satellite -- both HD and the lower tier. He has several size TV's, all lined up as in a control room.

I hooked up a neighbor last week with a 42" LCD Dish Network. I placed in-line for them their satellite receiver, DVD player, VHS recorder/player and a surround sound system with both audio and video inputs for routing. They only had 5 remotes!

Drop us a line, and let us know about YOUR setup.

Tom Craig

Daniel
Tuesday, September 15, 2009 › 3:21pm
Tom,

Do you see any possibility that you will be able to broadcast 'Ken Burns' The National Parks in HD at the end of the month?

thanks

RobT
Tuesday, September 15, 2009 › 8:33pm
Daniel - you nailed it. The National Parks is the best must-see stuff in years, and I would love to know what to expect. Right now, I expect that KRMA will not show the series in HD (sigh).

Tom Craig
Thursday, September 17, 2009 › 10:20am
To Daniel and RobT:

I can only say at this point that we are trying to come up with a way to air this program in HD. You're right in that a program this scenic in nature (pun intended) deserves to air in HD.

Given that we don't have an HD switcher in the air chain, any work-around may introduce visible glitching getting in and out of the program. We don't want the momentary signal loss to introduce problems in the air chain that will take minutes (or longer) to recover from. However, if we can figure out a way to get the HD signal out, momentary glitching in and out of the show may be less of a sin than not airing the program in HD.

Tom Craig

Angie
Thursday, September 17, 2009 › 12:32pm
Just now reading the comments... our biggest concern is concerning the programs for the kids. An incorrect aspect on most of the shows isn't that big of a concern, but the reading shows are a big concern.

My daughter is learning to read and we both find it pretty frustrating when 1/2 of the word (and sometimes 2-3 words) are missing on the screen. Word World and Between the Lions are our biggest concern.

Thanks for all the hard work; I know the conversion process and know all that is involved.

Angie

Randy
Tuesday, September 22, 2009 › 9:51am
Dear Tom,
Can you provide any update on whether KRMA might be able to transmit an HD signal for The National Parks? Also, what might DISH viewers expect?
Thank you,
Randy

Tom Craig
Tuesday, September 22, 2009 › 4:57pm
Angie:

We share your frustration. Nearly all of the programming for kids sent down from PBS is in a 4x3 -- not widescreen -- mode. We air ALL programs out as if they are widescreen. When the programs are stretched to the left/right edge of the screen your cable company at the "analog" subscriber level cuts of those edges in what is called "center cut protect", and you lose the graphics at the edges.

We are just now beginning everyday to re-record the kids' programming with pillar bars (black left/right) to make them a 16x9 shape. Then, as cable/satellite center cuts the program, it's only the black edges get cut off, and your kids see all the words and grahics.

Thanks for watching, and stay tuned...

Tom Craig
Tuesday, September 22, 2009 › 5:12pm
Randy:

Thanks for the post regarding Ken Burn's National Parks mini-series airing beginning at the end of September.

Note first that I need to start up an HD section on Tech Talk to begin conversations on HD.

I recently moved in to a position of working with both our Production and Engineering departments, which will give me more insight to pass on. We believe that we will be able to show National Parks in HD, but I've not yet been shown the method of switching from standard definition in this very special case. I do know that we are going to test this switch by Friday to verify it will work.

Eric
Wednesday, September 23, 2009 › 11:12pm
Thanks for the all the previous explanations, though I find it hard to believe that RMPBS wasn't already prepared to start broadcasting in HD as of the (long delayed!) digital transition. It can't exactly have caught you by surprise.

But what I find impossible to understand is when programming that's already 16:9 and should be left alone gets DOUBLY letterboxed, with black bars on the sides AND top, so it doesn't fill the screen. That's extremely frustrating. (I'm OTA...)

Richard Trinkner
Thursday, September 24, 2009 › 9:23am
I greatly anticipate your HD signal.

When you start broadcasting in HD, will it quickly be available on the Dish Network?

It's sad to see Rocky Mtn PBS lagging behind the other PBS providers in terms of HD, especially with the lovely content that PBS has in its programming. Most of the other metro areas in the US have PBS HD broadcasts.

Tom Craig
Thursday, September 24, 2009 › 12:40pm
Eric:

I'll do my best to explain why 16x9 programs are formatted with black around it.

For reasons unknown to me, PBS sends down widescreen programming that is not "center-cut" protected. In otherwords, graphic content and camera composition are not protected for the majority of viewers who watch on 4x3 sets, or at basic tier subscription levels on cable and satellite -- which is 4x3! So... the programming is re-formatted for the majority of viewers, which, we assume, is also then the majority of contributing members of our stations.

WE wish PBS would send us 16x9 content that is center-cut protected so that every viewer wins on this issue. Needless to say, we will track the end-viewer trends regarding subscription services and monitoring.

Tom Craig
Thursday, September 24, 2009 › 12:47pm
Richard T:

To begin with, I can only apologize for being late in providing our viewers with an HD signal. We are working on it, but I don't expect that it will happen on a permanent basis until late Spring of 2010. That being said, yes, Dish, Direct, Comcast, Bresnan and other subscription services should be delivering our signal to you in HD.

John
Thursday, September 24, 2009 › 1:48pm
Regrettably, KRMA comes off as seriously dysfunctional and lacking in management and technical expertise!

Richard T
Thursday, September 24, 2009 › 3:23pm
Thanks for the reply, Tom. It'll be great to see PBS in HD! (And finally, I might be able to win those family TV arguments about whether to watch Mystery! or America's Top Model!)

Juan deCalavera
Sunday, September 27, 2009 › 11:50pm
When airing the first two hours of Ken Burns' National Parks documentary this evening, the difference between the HD showing and the standard 480i showing, immediately after, was so different as to be sickening. From the modern location filming of Yosemite to the period photographs of William Henry Jackson, the loss of detail and color depth in the later broadcast was palpable and testament to the value of full 1080i display. Please dedicate all of channel 6.1 to full HD quality as soon as possible. Otherwise your programming is just backward in comparison.
Seriously, nothing should prove this point more clearly, pun intended, than watching these two versions one after the other this way.
On non-adjusting screens the picture also regressed to squish-o-vision -- and that's just wrong.

Daniel
Monday, September 28, 2009 › 10:29am
Kudos Tom for showing Ken Burns' National Parks in HD (part 1). Will you be able to show the rest of it (at least the premiers) for the rest of the series?

Tom Craig
Monday, September 28, 2009 › 6:35pm
Daniel:

Yes, we are planning to air the remainder of NATIONAL PARKS in HD. Note that the repeat version each night will be aired in standard definition.

Last night's (Sunday) premiere did not display closed-captioning. We apologize. The firmware on our HD VTR did not allow for the HD captioning specification. The team tells me that they have resolved that issue, and will air Monday's show off of one of our new media servers that does handle the HD captioning.

Enjoy!

Tom Craig
Monday, September 28, 2009 › 6:45pm
Juan:

I'm delighted you had to the opportunity to see NATIONAL PARKS in HD. Your positive comments on it make worthwhile the efforts our team made to bring this to you in HD, even though we are not yet set up to switch and air our programs in that format.

Alas, we technically cannot switch and air all of our programs in HD at this time, as we do not have the technical infrastructure in place. But we are now all the more dedicated to working towards the day we can bring HD in to your home each and every night.

John T
Tuesday, September 29, 2009 › 3:35pm
Tom,

Bravo! on transmitting The National Parks in HD. Seeing the HD picture on KRMA was like visiting an old friend.

The irony was not lost on me either that a program about saving our natural resources didn't have the incessantly irritating, overly bright RMPBS.ORG bug which, like all station bugs, pollutes our airwaves. On my 8' screen, it measures almost a foot wide. Seeing a pristine picture, devoid of electronic junk, is a breath of fresh air. Don't get any ideas about crafting a technical fix. I want to see the rest of the series sans bug.

I hope we get to see HD now and then before next June. Congratulations to you and the team for a great job this week in pulling off this HD broadcast. It is really appreciated! :)

John T
Friday, October 2, 2009 › 1:42am
Tom,

I thought we were going to see the rest of The National Parks bug free but, no, KRMA couldn't resist. I'm sorry I brought it up. Ken Burns is trying to make a point about polluting our natural resources and you're polluting our picture. So much for HD on RMPBS. I'm very disappointed. :(

Bruce
Monday, October 12, 2009 › 11:13am
I'm confused. Directv told me that KRMA does not broadcast in HD. But I seem to recall getting KRMA in HD via Comcast. What's the story here? Is KRMA broadcasting in HD (at least some of the time) and do I need to pressure Directv? I was disappointed that I could not watch the National Parks series in HD.

Steve
Wednesday, October 21, 2009 › 5:01am
Watched Frontline tonight on direct tv ch8 KTSC . It was a new one. Couldn't see half the people since most were cut off. Any titles I would only see half. Also had that pause every 10 seconds.

I don't want to pay driecttv extra for HD channels. And I don't think it would fix my problems. Can't get the channel with my dtv convertor so I am stuck.

I don't fully understand why your station is having this problem on Direct TV, maybe someone can explain it a bit better.